Beeson Podcast, Episode #599 Dr. David Nelson April 26, 2022 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of 麻豆视频. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I鈥檓 your host, Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. And today we鈥檙e beginning a two-part series on the topic of Christian publishing. Our two guests for this series are both Beeson alumni, we鈥檙e proud to say. And both have taken new positions in publishing this spring. In fact, they were both on the podcast together back in 2019 on the first episode of that year. We are excited to welcome them back separately this time for this series. And Kristen, who do we have on today鈥檚 program? >>Kristen Padilla: We have Dr. David Nelson who serves as the Director of Baylor 麻豆视频 Press. Prior to coming to Baylor 麻豆视频 he worked at Baker Academic and Brazos for a number of years. He serves as the Editor of Lutheran Forum. And we are proud to say that he is a Beeson alumnus. He earned his MDIV degree in 2004 and then after leaving Beeson, went on to get a PhD at the 麻豆视频 of Aberdeen in Scotland. I forget when it was that I got to know Dave personally. It may have been at an annual meeting when I met him for the first time, but he鈥檚 become a friend of mine and Dave it鈥檚 just great to have you back on the Beeson Podcast. >>David: Thanks for having me on. I鈥檓 excited to chat about publishing. >>Kristen Padilla: Yes. Well, for those who missed that 2019 episode, could you tell us a little bit more about yourself? Where you鈥檙e from, anything about your family, your spiritual journey, and kind of what鈥檚 going on in your life these days? >>David: Sure. I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama. As it happens, about five miles as the crow flies from where you all sit right now. I grew up in Bluff Park. I spent most of my childhood and early life, really most of my life in Birmingham. I went to UAB for undergrad. I ended up at Beeson Divinity School kind of by accident but really enjoyed it. It was a great experience for me. As you mentioned, went from there to the 麻豆视频 of Aberdeen to do a PhD. But spent most of my time writing the PhD there in Birmingham. Then got into publishing and had been there ever since. With this move to Baylor 麻豆视频 Press I think I鈥檓 in it for good. And I鈥檓 very content with that. It鈥檚 a place where I really do sense a strong sense of vocation to be doing a specific kind of work and very happy with that move. I am married to Daisha now for just about 21 years. We were married there in Birmingham at what used to be Southeastern Bible College, now it鈥檚 Mountain Brook Community Church. We spent a lot of our time there in Birmingham. Lived in Scotland and France and up here in Michigan. We have three great kids. We鈥檝e got Robert who is 17 and he鈥檚 a very talented kid. He鈥檚 a junior in high school. And we have twins, Reece and Liam, who were born right before we moved up here. I鈥檓 going to be very careful with the last part of that question. You asked about a spiritual background. I鈥檓 kind of Lutheran. I鈥檓 not really sure what kind of Lutheran I am. I see Doug giving me the thumbs up there. It鈥檚 a weird world that we鈥檙e in right now. Lutheranism in North America is kind of in a weird state. I fall in that spectrum somewhere but I鈥檓 still sorting that out, as they say. >>Doug Sweeney: Dave, you know I鈥檓 in a family of publishers and publishing seems like a wonderful and perfectly natural thing to me. But it鈥檚 probably true to say that not lots of seminary students think they鈥檙e heading into publishing. Tell us a little bit about how you came to decide you were heading into publishing and along the way if you can put a little pitch out there for seminary students for whom this might be a great fit, but hadn鈥檛 thought about it before. >>David: Sure. It鈥檚 interesting looking back. You always see things in hindsight that you don鈥檛 see going forward, right? When I look back I feel like I鈥檝e been around books all my life. I grew up in a house where books were just literally everywhere. And I read avidly as a child and as a teenager. Then my first two jobs were with Christian bookstores. I worked for what was previously called, 鈥淛oshua鈥檚鈥 and then called, 鈥淔amily Bookstores鈥 and now doesn鈥檛 exist anymore. I worked for about six years. And then transferred over and actually was the manager of the bookstore there at Beeson Divinity School. So, all those years I was around publishing and very formative years of mine was around theological publishing of the kind that I do now at Baylor 麻豆视频 Press when I was there at the bookstore. So, on one hand it seems like it should be just a very natural follow through from doing a PhD to going straight into publishing. In fact, it all happened kind of as an accident. And that tends to be common in the world that I鈥檓 in. A lot of people didn鈥檛 expect to get into publishing and once they found themselves in publishing they realized what a great place it is to be. And that鈥檚 what happened to me. I鈥檇 finished up my dissertation in the spring of 2011. And I started applying for jobs that fall. That was right after the recession had really started to do its work among the colleges and universities that academia tends to serve. And there just weren鈥檛 any jobs opening up that fall. And actually I think here I can drop a name. One of my professors from Beeson, Gerald Bray, out of the blue one day sent me an email and all the email said was ... I鈥檝e still got it in my inbox ... it said, 鈥淪urely you鈥檝e applied for this position.鈥 And then the email itself was a link to a position at a publishing house. I had gone into that fall thinking I probably ought to be open minded about where I end up going. And it still took me maybe a week of thinking over just kind of wrestling with it. Is this something I really want to do? I never really thought about it before, even though I had all of those experiences. I had never really thought about going into publishing. But after a week and after hearing at the time my twins were maybe six months old and they鈥檙e on the floor crying for food, you know? And I鈥檓 like, 鈥淥kay, well, I got to feed these children somehow.鈥 I decided to go for it. And actually didn鈥檛 get that position, but the same year later on the position at Baker Academic opened up and I applied and ended up getting into publishing that way. And why I ended up getting it was the combination of having been around books, having worked in retail especially there at the Beeson Bookshop and then as it happened my doctoral supervisor was under contract to write several things for Baker Academic and he wrote a nice letter of reference and it was a good connection there. The latter part of your question, Doug, it is a fun way to use the gifts and abilities that seminary both draws students to and also stirs up within them, right? I found a natural continuity looking back over my whole life that all of these different things that I鈥檝e ended up doing kind of tied together into the publishing world that I鈥檓 in. And I鈥檝e tended to find that to be the case with others who are in this world. I don鈥檛 really know anyone off hand who has gotten into publishing and decided it鈥檚 just gross and they don鈥檛 want to do it anymore and jump ship to go somewhere else. A lot of folks kind of get in through the backdoor. They don鈥檛 really know how they got there. But folks who get into the world usually stay. And it鈥檚 a vibrant community full of good people who are devoted to the task of bringing ideas to life. And I would strongly ... Here鈥檚 what I would recommend for students who may right now be thinking about that as a possibility 鈥 go ahead and do some work on the front end thinking about the kinds of things that they could put on a resume. It鈥檚 becoming more and more competitive; jobs in this world as everywhere really. And the more that they can do on the front end the better off they鈥檒l be if they really want to take it seriously down the road. >>Doug Sweeney: Quick follow-up. So, what kinds of things? If there is a young listener here and they want to know ... 鈥淗ey, that鈥檚 good advice, I鈥檓 going to do something like he said.鈥 What kinds of things should they try to do? >>David: You bet. Two things right off the top of my head. One, any opportunity that they can get locally to work in retail is a good thing. Just the fact that I was able to say to future employers at Baker Publishing Group, 鈥淚鈥檝e at an end cap. I know what it means to arrange the books on the shelf and try to figure out a way to sell the book to the reader and to talk about books.鈥 Gosh, that was a really big thing. Looking back on it, it was funny, I did that. I thought I did that during seminary and didn鈥檛 expect it to come up during my interview. 鈥淚 thought you guys were wanting to talk about theology.鈥 Right? And they ended up asking questions about my time at the Beeson Bookshop and at Family Bookstore. So, any of that front line experience. I know there are not a lot of brick and mortar bookstores these days. But go try to get a job at Barnes & Noble or at a campus bookstore. Some place where books are bought and sold. That鈥檚 just a good thing to have on your resume. The other thing is any kind of ... especially for those who are interested in getting into editorial work ... any kind of even low level editorial work. Working with a campus magazine or newspaper, maybe taking ... at least a few year ago the 麻豆视频 of Chicago had an online copyediting test that you could take. A little program that you run through. You have to pay a couple hundred bucks but you get a certification at the end. Anything like that, that you can actually put on the resume that says, 鈥淚鈥檝e been in this world at least gotten a toe in and I know the drill. I know the kind of language that鈥檚 used.鈥 Anything like that will help a resume rise to the surface. Because again right now publishers ... there are not a lot of jobs in publishing. There really haven鈥檛 ever been, but there are a lot more candidates and so you can almost guarantee that if you apply for a job there are going to be another group of people in the pool. And anything you can do to make your vitae rise up to the surface is a good thing. >>Kristen Padilla: Tell us, Dave, how you got from Baker to Baylor. And this is a multiple part question, but for those who may be familiar with Baylor 麻豆视频 but not the Press, what is the Press all about? How did you get into this new position? And what is your job going to entail as Director? Anything that you want to share even about your excitement or your vision in leading a major academic press? >>David: That鈥檚 a lot of questions. You鈥檙e right. So, I鈥檓 going to have to think through them systematically here. I鈥檓 very excited to be the Director of Baylor 麻豆视频 Press. It鈥檚 a great opportunity. The way I got into it is I received an email from a hiring agent suggesting that I think about it. Apparently my name had come up along the way of the search. It had been a long search, actually. Baylor had been without a full time Director for, gosh, over two years at that point. And there are a lot of reasons for that. Half of them have to do with the pandemic. The pandemic just upended all of these hiring processes and searches and other things that went on. Including it caused a hiring freeze at the university. So, this last summer the Press was finally ready to resume that search. The university, of course, resumed it and the opportunity was presented to me and you go into a discernment process. I honestly can tell you that the very first thought I had was, 鈥淲ell, central Texas? I don鈥檛 know.鈥 That was the first thought. And then when I got to thinking more about the Press itself and the books and the reputation the Press has, that鈥檚 when I really began to kind of grow within me, 鈥淭his is something that I need to take very seriously.鈥 And spoke at length on those early days with my wife and also reached out to others. I think it鈥檚 probably a good thing to do, I guess. But reached out to others who have tended to speak into my own life and asked them for their opinion about whether it would be a good fit for me. And whether I would be a good fit for it. And once the green lights started to light up, it seemed to be the right thing to do. For my part, what I was very attracted to at first about the position are the books and the reputation. I love Baylor 麻豆视频 Press books. I was astonished early on in the interview process when I looked at the books in my own library and counted the number of BP鈥檚 on the spine. That unique green and gold logo. And just discovered that I had dozens of them that I had collected over the years. And some of my favorite books were Baylor 麻豆视频 Press books. Baylor books tend to be ... We kind of joke around the building ... they鈥檙e a little quirky. They鈥檝e got a bit of personality. They鈥檙e books that contribute to scholarship. They鈥檙e very beautifully, gorgeously designed. There鈥檚 something about the brand that speaks to the guild that we serve that says quality and seriousness. And I really appreciated that. I also had heard from many folks who worked with Baylor 麻豆视频 Press that it鈥檚 a great experience working with that team. And that meant a lot to me. Coming from Baker Academic where we placed a lot of emphasis, they still place a lot of emphasis on author care. Author service. The relationships that we build with the pool of authors that we serve. I saw the residences there at Baylor 麻豆视频 Press also, and that drew me to the position. Since I鈥檝e been there I鈥檓 just delighted to say that I鈥檝e found that really the most attractive part of being at Baylor 麻豆视频 Press is the people. It鈥檚 a great group of professional publishers. There鈥檚 six of us on the full time staff and we also have student workers who come in and out, several of whom have been around for a while and it鈥檚 just a great group of people who take the work that we do very, very seriously. I didn鈥檛 know any of them at all on the front end. But I鈥檝e gotten to know them since 鈥 interviewing and then receiving and starting the position. And it鈥檚 just been a really great fit so far. And I鈥檓 very pleased about that. The vision? I feel like I鈥檓 in a very unique situation, a wonderful situation of having inherited a program that was already running strong. And I see my vision ... I鈥檝e been entrusted by the university to continue running that program at full strength. To find new books for the press to get great scholarship out into the wild with the BP logo on the spine. And also to do that while building, continuing to build bridges with the university. We鈥檙e in a spot as a 麻豆视频 Press where we鈥檙e very close to our parent institution, which is Baylor 麻豆视频. And to do what we do by maintaining a good strong effective institutional relationship is absolutely a top priority. The only thing I don鈥檛 think I answered, Kristen, is just what the Directorship entails. I mean, on one hand it entails ... We all, the team of six, we鈥檙e all involved in every single aspect of the publishing process. And as the Director that鈥檚 especially the case for me. So, being the Director is getting, as it were, my hands dirty in every single aspect of publishing. It鈥檚 also about building the tie. Building bridges at the university and also building bridges to the world of scholarship that we serve. And then in terms of actual brass tacks, on that team of six I鈥檓 filling an acquisitions role in addition to the Directorship role. And so I鈥檓 responsive along with my colleague, K. Gerald, of actually finding and bringing in and turning out the books that we actually publish each year. So, I鈥檓 doing the acquisitions work alongside the Directorship. It鈥檚 a bit, but again, so far it鈥檚 been great fun. >>Doug Sweeney: Beeson Divinity School, of course Dave, is a seminary that educates pastors and serves churches. Could you say just a word or two about the difference Christian academic publishing already makes and should continue to make in the service of the church and Christian discipleship and Christian ministry? >>David: Sure. I鈥檇 be delighted to answer that question. I do feel like I need to at least say a couple of caveats beforehand. One would be that at Baylor 麻豆视频 Press we mainly serve the academic community itself. Most of the books that we publish are written by scholars for other scholars. We assume that many of the scholars that we serve are active in their own faith communities in one way or the other. And so there鈥檚 a direct connection there but for the most part we serve the academic community directly. That鈥檚 what a 麻豆视频 Press does. It鈥檚 a bit different actually than coming from Baker Academic where many of our books were directly connected to communities to churches and whatnot. The other thing I should say is that most of the books that we publish at Baylor 麻豆视频 Press are books that contribute to Christian scholarship, or to scholarship on Christianity. But we also do serve Muslim and Jewish scholars as well as they speak to their academic communities. There鈥檚 a question about how publishing affects Christian discipleship in the church and at Baylor we鈥檙e also thinking about how Muslim scholarship impacts the Mosque and how Jewish scholarship impacts the synagogue. And those are smaller parts of our program, but also parts of our program that we do facilitate and take very seriously. So, that鈥檚 kind of the disclaimer going into that question. But then I guess what I would say is that I wonder, as I鈥檝e thought about this over the years, if it鈥檚 best to replace the 鈥渄oes鈥 in the question with 鈥渃an.鈥 How can Christian publishing affect discipleship in the local congregation and the local church? And I think, Doug, that it really comes down to what pastors and teachers at the local level, the seriousness that they鈥檙e willing to take parishioners into the depths of the faith traditions that they have, right? I鈥檝e historically been a member of churches where Sunday School and Wednesday evening programs are light fare. You grab a book off the Christian living shelf that might be selling a bit or maybe talked about on Facebook or social media, but rarely want to dig deeper into the history of Christian thought or the richness of the biblical traditions, interfaith questions that require a little bit of thinking outside the boxes that we鈥檙e normally accustomed to thinking in. As long as pastors and others on pastoral staffs are willing to dare to go out of those boxes and dig a little bit deeper. But the kind of books that academic publishers publish can indeed serve local congregations. We have a number of books on our own list that we believe do that. I鈥檒l mention one. There鈥檚 another fun name to drop in this context. We published Josh Reeves鈥 book which is a study of the relationship between science and faith. And it鈥檚 a book that I think can appeal to university students, but also appeal to lay folk who are interested in wrestling with these kinds of questions. It鈥檚, 鈥淩edeeming Expertise,鈥 is the name of the book. It鈥檚 about how we think about scientific expertise in an age when everyone claims to be an expert because social media allows us to do so. That鈥檚 a book that I think can serve any number of people, it operates on any number of levels. Ultimately, though, it depends on pastors and others at the local level willing to tackle those tough issues in the context of local Christian life. >>Doug Sweeney: And Josh Reeve鈥檚 we ought to point out is also a Beeson alumnus and a professor here at 麻豆视频 in the biblical and religious studies department. >>Kristen Padilla: That鈥檚 right. He was on the podcast not long ago talking about his book. So, we encourage you to go back and listen to that episode. >>David: I should point out he was also the one that hired me at Beeson Divinity School鈥檚 bookstore back in the day. So, it鈥檚 been fun to re-connect with Josh after almost 15 years, which is crazy. Re-connect with him as his publisher. >>Kristen Padilla: Lots of connections. Dave, I鈥檓 just wondering, for a young scholar or seminary students, I guess this could apply beyond scholars and even young ones at that, but what advice would you give them before they approach a publisher with a book idea? I鈥檇 love to know what makes for a good book proposal? Yeah, what should they know before they come knocking at your door, Dave, to publish their book? >>David: Sure. That鈥檚 a great question. I always tell those who will listen three things. This sounds fairly Socratic I suppose, but there鈥檚 a lot of truth. It鈥檚 very generative to think about these three things. It leads down a number of important paths towards good publishing. And they are: 1) Know your publishers, 2) Know yourself, and 3) Know your project. I always encourage especially those who are just getting in. Maybe they鈥檝e got a dissertation, they鈥檙e trying to shop their dissertation at the annual meetings or they鈥檝e done that and now they want to write a book, their second book and want to focus exclusively on the publishing process so we don鈥檛 have to worry about defending the work in front of a committee, we just want to get the thing published now. So, what do we do? Know your publishers, know yourself, know your project. Very quickly. I am astonished at how little knowledge there is in the academy that we serve about the different kinds of publishers and what they actually do. I would highly encourage young new authors to familiarize themselves with what different publishers publish. We do our thing, our unique thing 鈥 Baylor 麻豆视频 Press 鈥 and by looking at our catalogs, by visiting our website, by wandering around the booth at a meeting, you can figure out, 鈥淒oes my book actually fit on this list or not?鈥 The same with Baker Academic, Brazos, Zondervan, Lexum, Oxford 麻豆视频 Press, Concordia 麻豆视频 Press. All of the different presses that are out there have something unique that they鈥檙e contributing to this one big discussion that鈥檚 going on. And just figuring out, doing a little legwork to understand what the publishers do can be extremely helpful. We do this ... I mean, if I鈥檓 hungry, as my evergreen example of this that I use a lot, but if I鈥檓 hungry for a hamburger and I see on the interstate sign, 鈥淢cDonalds, Taco Bell, ChickFilA, and Fudruckers.鈥 I know that two of those are places where I can get a hamburger and then it just comes down to how much do I want to spend on it? I do all of that intuitively. I don鈥檛 really think, 鈥淲ell, can I get a hamburger at ChickFilA?鈥 I don鈥檛 think about that because I know I鈥檝e got a sense of what these different restaurants actually do. What their menus look like. But for whatever reasons, a variety of reasons, it鈥檚 very complicated of course, but a lot of folks have never thought in that way about the publishing ... the different presses, the publishing community that serves the Christian academy. So, thinking about that on the front end can, at the very least, prevent some very awkward conversations. Where you approach a press and the press says, 鈥淲e鈥檝e never published that kind of book before. Why are you here?鈥 I think it鈥檚 imperative, secondly, that young authors think in advance what kind of books they want to write. And what kind of books they have to write. And where they are, what institution they work for, what their own personal interests are, what other books are actually out there in the conversation they鈥檙e trying to contribute to. All of those questions, that will determine quite a bit what kind of books they see in their future. I鈥檓 always astonished. There鈥檚 a theologian, a German theologian named [inaudible 00:27:41] and the rumor has it that Hanenberg, when he was a very young freshly minted PhD had already mapped out the books that he wanted to write over the course of his career. That鈥檚 a little weird. I don鈥檛 expect anyone to do quite that, and I鈥檓 not even sure the story could be apocryphal. I鈥檓 not even sure if it鈥檚 true or not. But the very idea that someone had the wherewithal to say, 鈥淗ere鈥檚 what I want to do. Here鈥檚 what I want to contribute.鈥 And then to think about that. I think that鈥檚 a really good idea. At least just to have a thought about it for a young scholar just getting into theological publishing or Christian writing. And then the final thing would be ... and this leads to the question you had about the proposal. It鈥檚 just knowing your book really well. Knowing what it is, if you鈥檙e at the stage where you鈥檙e ready to propose a book to a publisher, know that book and that project really well. We鈥檙e professionals, publishers, some of us don鈥檛 act like it but we are professionals. And when we talk to an author we expect to receive on the other side a very well put together presentation of what it is they want to write on. And when we don鈥檛 have that it can actually be a big problem. You ask what makes for a good book proposal? I think there are a lot of things that go into a book proposal. You want to have a description. You want to have a table of contents. You want to have specs. You want to talk about how big you think it鈥檚 going to be and when you think you鈥檙e going to write it. I think though that probably the most important thing on a good book proposal is an abstract. It鈥檚 the elevator speech in print, right? It鈥檚 a very short 250 word or less, 鈥淗ere鈥檚 what I want to write about.鈥 And if you can鈥檛 do that, that鈥檚 an indication possibly that you haven鈥檛 quite pulled everything together, reeled in the idea to make it something that鈥檚 publishable. I think that鈥檚 absolutely critical. I remember a few years ago sitting next to someone at a meeting, it was actually a reception at one of the meetings, and they heard, the found out, maybe they looked at my name tag and discovered that I was in publishing and they proceeded when they discovered that I was an editor to unleash about 45 minutes trying to explain what the book was they were trying to publish. I still to this day have no idea what they were talking about. And there is the opposite. There is someone who hasn鈥檛 given enough thought to the ideas that they can compress them in something short, sweet, and clear to the person on the other side. So, I would say work on an abstract, refine the proposal. One final thing, think about a proposal for a book that you want to publish like you do a job application that you send for a job that you want to get. Clean it up. Revise, revise, revise. Don鈥檛 let there be any ... if you鈥檙e going to send it to two publishers don鈥檛 accidentally leave the name of the one publisher in the proposal for the other one that you send along. Don鈥檛 misspell the editor鈥檚 name. The proposals that go into a publishing house get circulated around professional publishers. We are by nature pedantic people. We sometimes edit and correct each other鈥檚 emails. Right? And so when we see a proposal that鈥檚 got a lot of weird stuff in it, got a lot of misspellings, it鈥檚 probably not something that鈥檚 going to make its way through the system. So, I always encourage people to take very careful care with the proposals that they send in. If they鈥檙e serious about it. >>Doug Sweeney: We鈥檙e almost out of time, but can we get you, Dr. Nelson, to reminisce for just a couple of minutes about your time at Beeson? Do you have any favorite professors? Any favorite memories? Any word to our audience about the way your time at Beeson has contributed to your life and your work as a publisher? >>David: You know, Doug, it was a great time. I look back on my four years at Beeson and it was a real great time in my life. I suppose that every Beeson student probably says the same thing. I came through at just the right time. It was just the right people there. I don鈥檛 have a lot of friends that I鈥檝e carried over from undergraduate days or from high school. But I鈥檝e just got dozens of friends that I鈥檝e carried over from Beeson days. And I still keep in touch with most of my professors as well. I somehow managed to take Gerald Bray for a class every single semester, except for one. And we still keep in touch. I had an opportunity to publish his book on the church a few years ago with Baker Academic and that was a great thrill. Beeson has contributed a lot of ways to what I do now. I鈥檒l just say very quickly that publishing work there are a lot of parallels to pastoral work. We talk in the industry about shepherding books through the publishing process. We work very carefully with authors and sometimes we have to get inside their heads. There鈥檚 a pastoral connection. There鈥檚 also a connection to psychology, to be sure. And Beeson prepared me. I came in thinking that I would go out as a college pastor and ended up going after a few other things into publishing and I found all of those skills that I learned in preaching and pastoral ministry and theology all of those have continued to serve me well. And then finally the ecumenical spirit of Beeson Divinity School. Just being there for four years, rubbing shoulders, studying theology alongside others who maybe saw the world differently than I do. That鈥檚 definitely continued to serve me well working now for a second publisher that has a broadly ecumenical approach to the kind of books that it publishes. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, we always like to end these podcasts by hearing what the Lord is teaching our guests. So, what has the Lord been teaching you these days? What has he been doing in your life that would encourage us as we close out the show? >>David: You know, right now as we鈥檙e recording this podcast we鈥檙e at what we hope is the end of a transition where we鈥檒l finally move down to Waco after, gosh, seven months ago entering the candidacy process for the position. So, it鈥檚 been a very, very long transition. And during that entire transition I think what God has continued to whisper to me and to my wife and to my kids is, 鈥淛ust trust me. It will all work out.鈥 We look back, my wife and I have lived in a lot of places. We鈥檝e lived I think in 11 homes in our 20 years of marriage. It鈥檚 always worked out. We鈥檝e always been able to see God鈥檚 hand along the way leading us where we need to go. We鈥檙e not quite there yet. We still got some questions about our transition that are coming up. We鈥檙e looking to move down there very soon. But we keep coming back to that in the past, at all those junctures, where things didn鈥檛 look so easy, always showed up. And we鈥檙e catching that same mood of trust and faith as we look forward. >>Doug Sweeney: That鈥檚 a good word and a great way to conclude. You have been listening to Dr. David Nelson. He is the Director of Baylor 麻豆视频 Press, a new position for him. He鈥檚 also the Editor of the Lutheran Forum, which is a great publication in its own right. One to which I subscribe. Thank you for your work there, Dave. Thank you, Dr. Nelson, for being with us today. Thank you, listeners, for tuning in. We鈥檙e praying for you and we would ask you to pray for us. We say goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You鈥檝e been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.